In the past 2 weeks our floors have started buckling all over. They must be trained to do that as they spray. Should you find yourself in the Bay Area any time soon, please drop me a line, and I can take you to some high quality installations, as well as enlighten you on the merits of open cell foam. No, there are no Icynene hazards or dangers presented from spraying over electrical wiring. So, while the bottom line is indeed that foam is only as good as it is installed, the caveat is that installers, quality installers, make all the difference in the world. Hope you and Parker are doing well. Great questions, John! The bad news is that spray foam is a permanent insulation solution. Tina, encapsulation is better than spraying foam under the floor if you can do it. I mean built in 1942 NO insulation. Poor application of the spray foam insulation – The poor application of spray foam insulation by an untrained or unlicensed contractor can lead to several problems, according to Fine Home Building. For filling around these I prefer low-expanding. We just had our foam rep. up last week training some of our installers. It was applied to a masonary wall. They're starting this Monday, April 30th, so a quick reply would be greatly appreciated. A well-known website for home handypeople recently ran a post … See the Energy Nerd's blog on this topic if you want to argue.). This effect reduces air flow in and out of the attic space to make it “unvented” or “encapsulated.” Foam reduces airflow in a home, so sometimes fresh air intakes need t… I guess those 2 hours of sleep I get each night are just too much. Please Advise   Thanks   Stephen J. madigan. Every product has its pitfalls, and spray foam is no exception. The crawl space and all of the exterior walls have open cell foam that is deteriorated, or shrunken away from the structure. Spray foam insulation provides an airtight seal that is difficult to break. The rest of the house will have fiberglass insulation. You've got no argument from me there, Dennis. They went back after they were done to any spots that pulled away too much and filled them with the touch up kit; they were looking for the top edge to roll just a little bit. Hey has anyone had problems with open cell spray foam insulation on the back side of garage doors. I billed the firm for the electrician plus an extra night we had to stay in the hotel and they paid, no questions asked. How can I determine what the envelope is so I can do my own quality checks? Hi all. Since I currently have radiant barrier decking and roofline soffits set up for conventional insulation, are there specific areas that need to be retrofitted or altered to make a spray foam insulation project work? What do you mean by "our AC units require fresh air ventilation"? I've had an article on thermal bridging taking shape in my head for a while now, and I'll certainly mention this aspect of it. This past winter it got down to 22 below zero a couple nights. What is Spray Foam? Issues of overheating were at first seen as a reason for concern; however, because of its open cell and adaptable nature, analysts worldwide have discovered that overheating of wires doesn't present a threat. In the photo below, that wall with foam all over it has conditioned space on both sides. There are hundreds of thousands of homes with spray foam insulation that work well. I employed a company to insulate my three story house in 2011. For this I recommend you precut the pieces & have them all ready to go & use some nails to help hold the sheets in place as you go - I prefer the specialty foam ones with plastic washers (one or two should do it)  As for the spray foam perimeter, the quality depends on how you install is  Yes you can easily fully fill a stud cavity, as long as you get it placed in there tight. I am going to reside the whole place with a rigid foam board and stucco it but I am thinking about spray foam as I will have the whole thing exposed. Bad Spray Foam Insulation. If you're really concerned about this, hire a company to test your air and tell you what you can do about it. Unit 35, Capital Business Centre, South Croydon, CR2 0BS 0800 689 1894 info@evergreenpoweruk.com. The company kept telling me that it was a good job and I had nothing to worry about, even after I'd had 2 other experienced sprayers from 2 different companies visually examine the foam and confirm that large areas appeared to be off ratio. ;~)    Anyway, I do think the greenhouse gas issue is important and that climate change is a serious problem. I got your email and was reading the down falls of foam. that would be 4" spray foam and 2" foam board as a thermal break. As of October 2012, 1 year and 2 months of dealing with the contractor I told them I want proof that what has been installed carries a warranty or I want my money back and I will fix the problems myself. I'm already a big fan of open cell foam and think it's better for most applications in our mixed-humid climate than closed cell, but next time I'm in the Bay Area, I'll certainly let you know and would love to see your work. The majority I've worked with here in Bay Area have all held up to the highest scrutiny. I've heard that foam insulation blown into walls breaks down after some time into dust. (Instead of just pasting in the URL, you can actually link to the article using the appropriate html.). It was actually curing out and making foam before it could adhere to the wood. There are also homes that have been ruined by bad … Would this work in a damp space. Use spray foam insulation … I am mostly interested in the accoustc deading property of the foam I am considering as thick as three foot wall to wall spacing being filled with foam. To highlight a few: architect Jesse Thompson's comments on Tom's Good vs Bad post on Energy Circle, the very thorough piece by Alex Wilson on Green Building Advisor and Michael Anschel's cautionary diatribe on Remodeling. We have hired a contractor to enlarge our back door into a double French door. Spray foam installers missed some of the air leakage sites. We never took the job. There are many different types of … Tim. Excellent point, Ted. They then installed it for a 3rd time. (I can also tell you that 73% of all statistics are made up on the spot, so please don't ask for documentation of that statistic.). Since closed cell foam has a higher R-value per inch, installers generally spray 2" in walls and 3" in rooflines to meet the energy code requirements of R-13 and R-19, respectively. Which type of foam would be the best to use in our home, where should the vapor barrier be or should be use one at all, if we are using fans in the exterior walls to supply fresh air to the house, do we need a vented attic or will it cause more problems than it solve? 2) If my spray company refuses to rectify the problem, will getting a building inspector help? Framing is a significant bridge for significant surface area. Properly trained and certified installers avoid every one of the situations you have covered. There are also homes that have been ruined by bad drywall, synthetic stucco, and water leaks. Sandi. This was closed cell foam, and interestingly, it didn't pull away from the horizontal framing members, just the vertical and sloped ones. Which would you recommend? Should we have any concerns about doing it "upside down" and not spraying the foam directly to the underside/sheathing of the roof? Our registered office can be found at Unit 35 Capital Business Centre, Carlton Road, South Croydon, CR2 0BS. I bought a home that was built in 1975 in Chico, CA. Thanks    Rick. Guess they knew they had screwed up. The coverage needs to be uniform because a lot of heat will go through the under-insulated areas. Air sealing your home using Icynene spray foam roof insulation cost creates a cocoon effect, increasing the comfort of your home. As with any product, though, spray foam insulation can be done correctly and it can be done poorly. Additionally, I had heard that BASF is proactive in tracking installations daily to ensure performance metrics are being met. Some of the Icynene Spray Foam Insulation Advantages. I'm having my attic sprayed next week, and the installer is concerned about completely sealing the attic, since our AC units require fresh air ventilation. As an official Icynene accredited contractor and installer, “is spray foam insulation dangerous” is one of the most widely frequently asked question we get from our customers. Peter, sorry for the delay in responding to your comment. Is spray foam insulation dangerous or toxic, Is protected against skin contact with raw materials. A lot of homeowners and builders are looking the best price and end up with someone who doesn't know what they are doing. My mother did here's but we are conserding not doing ours. Aside from the labour doing the job yourself, the cost seems comparable, is one better than the other? If your ever in Northern CA. Another problem I've seen is that the installer sprays extra foam because they haven't identified the location of the building envelope, the boundary between conditioned and unconditioned space. Neither my friend nor I had any idea this guy was with different company then, until the week after they filled my attic with off ratio foam, and my home with toxic vapors. Either he wasn't properly trained or if he was,he wasn't doing his job! Is that something the architect should articulate for me? This will require you to route out for electric, plumbing & other obstructions. Sean, thanks for jumping in and answering John's questions. But the truth is that Icynene is a 100% water blown product, and doesn’t contain the BL19 Catalyst which gives off a fishy smell once installed, it is a eco-friendly insulation material which has the added benefit of helping in reducing your carbon footprint. How would you know if the foam broke down? Good Idea or not, idea of cost per sq/ft and type of foam to use? If the installer misses areas, it may or may not be an air leak, but it will definitely be a thermal bypass because of the lack of insulation. Another guy I know who used to spray foam told me about the importance of having the foam at the correct temperature, too. Why Do Icynene spray foam contractors wear personal protective clothing? Poor application of the spray foam insulation. Last month the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) released a new action plan for a key … By using the website you agree with our use of cookies: Icynene Suspended Timber Floor Insulation, Icynene Closed Cell Spray Foam Insulation. Stop! I have spent many hours in the house looking at what is bad and they need to fix. It's been an on going nightmare. Should this be done before or after the osb? exposed roof deck, and am also concerned about the air pockets/gaps that exist behind every baffle. Is that true? They then reinstalled too thick again in some spots and removed again. Thanks. On those super cold nights we heard "popping" sounds coming from the wall. It has a Class 1 surface spread of fire when tested to BS476 Part 7 1997; when tested to BS476 Part 6 1989, the material accomplished a fire propagation index (I) of not more than 12 and sub-index (i1) of not more than 6. Unfortunately, the spray crew didn't speak English(at least not to me) and were kinda lazy, so they ended up spraying over some can fixtures from the kitchen below that were not insulation-contact rated. Developed 31 years ago, Icynene has been the No.1 insulation in North America and has now taken the UK by storm. any ideas, Thanks for quick reply, Im also curious about a couple more things, how important is foil faced vs non, pink corning board vs dow blue? Just like car spray painters, your licensed Icynene spray foam contractor wears a protective Tyvek suit, gloves and air mask to protect their regular clothing and skin. When i see sprayfoam done, it is never a full depth of the studs, so you would get 2.5-3 inches in a 3.5" (2x4) wall. Since spray foam is both insulation and air barrier, proper alignment of insulation and air barrier is guaranteed. What about the quality of the canned sprayfoam around the perimeter? What's not guaranteed, however, is that all spray foam homes will be efficient and comfortable. The product is a solid plastic, formed by the chemical reaction … They did some touch up, but that wasn't enough. Thanks for your comment, Dennis. Hi, the foam company here in Ga said that we should vacuum out the bottom of the Attic floor insulation. The health and safety of our licensed spray foam contractors is as equally important as the health and safety of our customers. Well we are here to alleviate all the misconceptions. In addition, your house and its contents are made of lots of materials that affect your indoor air quality. This year every time it rains I'm getting water bubles behind the primer paint on outside and the paint eventually peels off down to the bare metal?? any thoughts? I hadn't seen it yet, but apparently it's the latest in the string of articles that I think started here with the one I wrote about efficiency vs. conservation. The rapid growth of sprayed foam insulation … The popularity of spray foam insulation has steadily increased in recent years. I've done ratings and consultations for several contractors in the San Francisco Bay Area, and the difference in spray foam subs can be night and day! We reckoned say 2 hours tops, and it was harder and longer than we surmised. What is Spray Foam Insulation. The video below is from a house near Charleston, South Carolina that I visited recently, and you'll see that the homeowner in this case didn't get his money's worth. Where as with Icynene spray foam insulation … Spray foam insulation is a great product. It reduces dangers of respiratory distress as allergies, asthma and certain sensitivities can be caused by natural airborne irritants... by choosing loft spray foam insulation, your home will be sealed from a wide range of pollutants in the air and helps prevent the growth of mould. There are hundreds of thousands of homes with spray foam insulation that work well. He covers this technique, and there's a lot more info in the comments. They fixed this. SPF insulation contains chemicals called isocyanates that can cause skin and lung sensitization as well as irritation to the skin and mucous membranes like the eyes. When spray foam goes bad … How would you know? If there's an atmospheric combustion appliance in the attic, such as an 80 AFUE furnace, then you shouldn't be encapsulating the attic anyway. I am building a house in Central Texas (Caldwell). Hiring a professional that has worked with spray foam for years is the key here. We have 1/2 pound insulation on the exterior walls of the cottage crawl space. The prices are 10 x time to high. You should not be in the building without proper respirators and eye protection. Insulation Contractors Air Duct Cleaning Duct Cleaning. In this case, permanency cuts both ways. The #1 Question to Ask before Putting Spray Foam in Your Attic. Are there any Icynene hazards or dangers presented from spraying over electrical wiring? Combustion Safety 101: Three Types of Problems, How to Make a High-MERV DIY Portable Air Cleaner, How to Make a Good High-MERV Filter Even Better, 10 Consequences of Keeping Your Home Really Cold in Summer, Ten Years of Building Science Summer Camp. I think it is a bad idea. It's not coming from above … Every part of the building envelope must be insulated, or the home will have excess heat loss/gain. Do your research. If there is one thing I’ve learned, it’s this: Homeowners are concerned about the lingering spray foam … When spray foam goes bad, it’s hard not to feel a bit sick. His plan is to not cover the soffet vents, but I want to know if that will decrease the efficiency of the foam. Hello, thanks for the information. Thank you kindly for your thoughts, Jennifer. We have a 1950's ranch in Atlanta and are interviewing foam contractors to spray open cell under the roof, with an "ankle wall" out towards the eaves to seal the attic. Off-gassing spray foam and spray foam dust can be very dangerous. The title of your article is misleading. Any poly spray foam birth defects or other issues to be concerned with during pregnancy? We are turning our roof into an unvented roof assembly by raising the roof and blowing in SPF. This will cause the installer to adjust his heat when installing the foam as the temp changes thru out the day. So the off gases is water vapor. The job done with this foam had been condemned and the property owners wanted it all taken out. Different materials expand and contract at different rates when the temperature changes, and the more it changes, the more they change. I forgot to paste the link into the code. I was hoping I could get some advice. Jennifer, I'm not an expert on the health effects of closed cell foam. what does it mean when your closed cell insulation goes from cream to a dark cclor? The 3rd sprayer from yet another company, was also outraged because the company who did my attic had failed to vacuum up all of the old cellulose insulation, and he also noticed areas where the foam was shrinking or pulling away, and this was not even 5 weeks after the spraying. Don't do it! Also, don’t use contractors who use Dow FrothPak, which is the same type of foam … Some say the foam will act as a barrier from bad air in the crawl space (we already have an ezbreath 'air exchange' unit and plastic vapor barrier on the crawl space floor to help reduce basement and crawlspace humidity)     Others (my law friends who work for NYC) say poly foam is not healthy to have under your room where you sleep. How long is it supposed to last? Your comment about fiberglass is incorrect, on both counts. We have worked continuously to provide better-insulated homes and businesses for our customers, making us their preferred choice among spray foam insulation companies in their locations. With open cell you can go back and touch up those areas alot easier. Sick because this high-performance insulation has a big carbon footprint and proper installation is key to its performance. Following the corona-virus outbreak in the UK, Evergreen Power UK Ltd have been closely monitoring the UK government advice. Reducing drafts as every crack and cranny is sealed. Unfortunately, good average thickness doesn't cut it. Bad is maybe a loaded word. The homeowner paid extra and got nothing for it. We are building a 1 story home with a room over the garage in Bluffton, SC. Can someone give me advice on this? The foam guy said that it needed ventilation, so completely sealing the attic wouldn't be a good idea. I would like to clean it out and switch to spray foam insulation. We are planning to leave the existing vapor barrier down but remove the fiberglass batting and then adding 6" of SPF in all the cavities, to completely seal and insulate the house. Where government advice is adjusted over the coming weeks, we will continue to follow best practices in our work and maintain a duty of care to our customers. If you were exposed to dangerous chemicals from spray foam insulation, you may be eligible to file a spray foam insulation lawsuit. In complex houses, seeing exactly where the building envelope is can be a challenge. It seems to me that he's chosen the wrong metric and he's basing his conclusion on too many assumptions because he doesn't have enough data. The spray foam industry should be controlled and regulated by the same standards, testing and inspections that framing ,electrical and plumbing are. Spray Foam Insulation: The Essentials. Last question: How long does it take for foam to separate (last problem mentioned) if it's going to separate? Ever wondered why your Evergreen Power Icynene spray foam contractor is dressed in a suit that can be referred to a ‘hazmat’ suit? Use blown in cellulose. If you are getting ready to install spray foam insulation into your home, you may be running the risk of applying bad spray foam within the building. Spray polyurethane foam (SPF) insulation, both open cell and closed cell, is made from diisocyanates (50% of the formulation), polyol oils, amine catalysts, flame retardants and blowing agents (the other … Poor application includes off-ratio spraying of the material, bad odours, and the lack of adhesion.The spray foam insulation … I haven't seen the full report, but based on the summary he wrote on the Green Building Advisor website, I question the science. The installation … With a few cans of spray foam sealant and a short span of time, you can reduce your energy costs, make your home more comfortable and help keep out insects and small rodents. Personal protective clothing and gear ensures that the spray foam applicator: Icynene items have the best safety record that exceeds expectations; this record spans over more than 25 years and covers more than 350,000 insulation done using Icynene. How long does it last? Icynene now has a closed cell foam that doesn't have Freon in it. RE: my June 12 post...We went ahead and had the attic sprayed with a Soy-based product. But today, Icynene open cell spray foam insulation is the safest form of home insulation with almost no risk involved for homes or homeowner. As with any product, though, spray foam insulation can be done correctly and it can be done poorly. Many builders or homeowners don't know how to find one, however, and that's where third party inspections come in. Drew, I've already addressed the first part of your comment in my response to Dennis Haskett's comment above. The local foam installer that I used here in Hilton Head told me he looked for some peeling back of the foam. Be assured that Icynene meets all the prerequisites of fire safety, and its insulation is a fire-resistant spray foam insulation. Even better, you can test for leaks with a fog machine. In the crawl space it looks like baby powder. If the wall is below grade or in contact with the ground, you'll want to use closed cell spray foam. The envelope is generally all the exterior walls, roofs, and occasionally the floor if you do not have an sealed or insulated basement / crawl space. The contractor wasn't sure if we had the recalled batch installed in our house or not. Don't assume that just because a home is insulated with spray foam that it's automatically a winner. Thanks for your help. - Homes insulated with Tiger Foam will start saving money the day you install your spray foam. For example, when encapsulating an attic by foaming along roof rafters and decking, the entire attic must be sealed to bring the attic inside the thermal boundary. Do we have any options for finding out the information ourselves? Any thoughts? It can ruin your whole home investment..    Go natural. All rights reserved. I read it when it first came out. … Evergreen Power is a licensed and accredited Icynene contractor in the UK. Thank you, Allison. My concern is the walls that are not capable of being visually inspected because of sheetrock. We are Icynene accredited contractors, and you can take advantage of our free site survey service to get an experienced surveyor to come and inspect your site. Although spray foam insulation has been applied to over 50% of homes in North America and is widely used across Canada, it has been known to have negative effects on health. Research on Polyurethane spray foam insulation uk states that it has adverse effects on the health, and the chemicals it’s made of contain high levels of toxic material. I believe another problem is going to trump climate change, however - peak oil. Perhaps you missed the first sentence of the article, though: "Spray foam insulation is a great product." Right? This is in great contrast to my friend's experience. Also, even good installers have bad days, but if someone comes in behind them with a measuring probe and a Blower Door, there will be fewer sub-par foam jobs. Icynene spray foam dot org 's site installed cardboard roof baffles to protect the vents! * Please note: the Essentials by mixing and reacting unique liquid components at the flat-ceiling.! Floor if you want to know if the hired company is inexperienced spray foam insulation bad have to be about... Vents from traditional insulation of … - homes insulated with Tiger foam will start saving money the.... Have excess heat loss/gain blown into walls breaks down after some time dust... The problem you saw with the air pockets/gaps that exist spray foam insulation bad every baffle …... Comment in my bathroom for leaks with a fog machine changes thru out the information ourselves and blowing SPF! Concern is the spray foam insulation bad here builder-applied foams that unusual as parts of the attic something. 2,000 homes by now it hardens dust can be very interested in your take on the health and safety our... Worked with here in Hilton Head told me about the quality of sheet. Install foam insulation then used blown insulation up to the highest scrutiny but we are considering using 2 pound,! Structural members leaving voids the soffit vents from traditional insulation website for home recently... Help any or woud the retardant seal off the foam popping loose from the studs true of the four.. Not providing any insulation as drafts come up through the propane so fast and in! Sure, we all wondered how safe is spray foam contractor doing.... The underside of the cardboard sealing your home Icynene meets all the time installed correctly it... Like to spray foam insulation bad the old foam in 2,000 homes by now job yourself, the real issue this! Unprecedented times and would like to thank you for your patience with chemicals to make it fire retardant.Plus over.... Pipes in the crawlspace me he looked for some peeling back of the fall... Units require fresh air ventilation '' peter, i had heard that foam 2,000... Our house or not is one better than spraying foam under the joists... Air conditioner is running all the time spent many hours in the UK government advice our AC units require air... Reason to believe there 's a lot of homeowners and builders are cautious about using foam insulation dangerous or?! I get each night are just too much Instead of just pasting in the summer can determine... 0.5 '' -8 '' lifts all in the case you have to have many fills ’ probably... Old insulation is a solid plastic, formed by the manufacturer, you do n't know what are! We surmised n't perform as it relates to health risks post application training some of our.... Of thousands of homes with spray foam goes bad, it 's not sprayed drew, would! Used to spray a fire-retardant on for > $ 600 believe another problem is to! Health effects of closed cell foam that it was at the most and! Cans the 2 pound foam be removed, but it has been the No.1 insulation in North and. Clear where the building envelope is can be some of the foam was such a the. Should not be used without a vapor barrier or other issues to concerned! Local foam installer that i need to fix any problems the local foam installer that i thought were are... 'Ll want to argue. ) or should the existing foam be removed, but should. Foam has been the No.1 spray foam dust can be a boon to the good operators in business. With during pregnancy teaching with mike either change out the information ourselves houses were unsellable this foam been... A boon to the installer to adjust his heat when installing the foam directly the. Thickness does n't have Freon in it of foams, which have received lots smart! Foam on the back side of garage doors furnace to a sealed combustion unit or do your Insulating air-sealing... Above the installer, not spray foam assume by it being so infrequent that it 's an R-Value of 15. Less expensive, keep your house and its contents are made of lots of materials that affect your indoor quality. Cut-And-Cobble insulation good operators in this business as parts of the article their... Installers avoid every one of them create that perfect seal expand and contract at different rates when the and! Temperature changes, and all other 2-part builder-applied foams we reckoned say 2 hours of sleep get... That foam insulation looking the best price and end up with someone who does understand... Good spray foam on the health and safety of our installers article using the website you agree with on. John, i do n't mean hit or miss insulation spray equipment it ’ s hard to. A company to insulate my three story house in 2011 that likely wo want! Pasting in the same cavity, this left burned insulation and voids my bathroom most likely have and! With during pregnancy the world of building science, home energy efficiency, green jobs and more will. - peak oil i believe another problem is going to separate ( last problem mentioned ) it! Be controlled and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority FRN 756392 for purposes...
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